Bike Touring with the Surly ECR: 1,000 km Impressions + Build Specs

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“I think they [Knards] will be too slow.” “You won’t find 29er tires or tubes in Africa.” “That thing is going to be heavy.” I pretty much ignored the aforementioned comments, among a couple other worries that were floating around in my skull, and rolled into Africa with the ECR, complete with Knards. Here are my thoughts after 1,000 KMs.

The first thing I must mention in this quasi review is the amount of oglers and inquisitors that the ECR has left in its in its wake so far in South Africa. Granted, it is a sight to behold. I think it probably draws comparison to the timeless expedition-built overland vehicles that frequently roam the bush and tackle big trans-African adventures, strapped with gas-cans, spare lugged tires, gear trailers and canvas tarps that provide temporary shelter to the intrepid travelers that spend days behind the wheel in order to reach remote and rugged places.

Surly ECR - Off Road Bike Touring - Knards, Racks

I think I have found something close to a niche for this bike, although it may in fact fall into several niches. It’s not exactly the fully loadable cousin of the Krampus, or the Knardable option for the Ogre, or the fat big brother of the Troll. It’s kind of it’s own thing. It’s a playful, long-distance workhorse, and after rolling across some very diverse non-tar surfaces in the Western Cape of South Africa, and venturing to places where there aren’t many automobiles, it is my very happy home.

Surly ECR - Off Road Bike Touring - Knards, Racks

The Surly ECR Sacred Geometry

For the style of riding and the terrain I prefer, I really like the geometry of the ECR. It’s a somewhat of a slack bike. Not as playfully designed as the fun-loving Krampus, but also not as upright as the Ogre or Troll. It has enough head angle to feel comfortable, and even nimble on descents, but the lower bottom bracket gives it a nice stable ride when climbing or working through technical terrain. Even though I’ve built this one a little on the heavy side (especially when loaded), the ECR begs for a flowing and a playful style of riding.

Surly ECR - Off Road Bike Touring - Knards

The ECR does have a large BB drop, and respectively low bottom bracket height, on paper. But the fatter Knards make up the distance and give it a comparable BB height to the Ogre, or my Ibis Mojo, for that matter. Over rocky climbs and toying around with obstacles, it feels like there is a generous amount of room, even with larger platform pedals. I have had some pedal strike on single-track, but I blame those on the fact that I am somewhat new to flats. The ECR could work with smaller tires, but something below a 2.5 may be pushing it if you are into riding chunky or technical surfaces. All in all, I don’t see this as an issue.

Surly ECR - Off Road Bike Touring - South Africa

The 29+ Platform for Touring

There has been lots of discussion on the web and amongst off-road enthusiasts about the 29+ platform. Such debate is justified, as this is indeed a special formula. I rode the Krampus on a slice of single track a couple of months ago and was sold on the idea that a bicycle could perform off road, and be extremely fun, without suspension. Suspension is not necessarily a bad thing, but over a long tour in a remote country, there is something to be said for the reliability, loading capabilities, and non-maintenance of a rigid setup. But, when off of the tarmac is where the adventure beckons, a rigid bike can serve up a beating. The magic of 29+ is in the marriage of a large rolling diameter, a rigid frame/fork, and the performance and suspension qualities of the hefty 3” Knards. 29+ pretty much defangs the dirt serpent.

2014-01-ECR-06

Bike Touring (in Africa) with Knards

It is, at the very least, a once a day occurrence to be stopped by someone who is outwardly astonished by the three inch tires. They obviously don’t have fat bikes here. Knards have actually proven to be quite a useful conversation starter. I can partially accredit at least one kind offer of accommodation to the tires. On our first night out of Cape Town, a commuter, Liesbet, stopped us and seemed slightly infatuated with the Knards. Shortly in to the conversation, she invited us to stay the night in her beautiful home in the Cape WInelands. Lucky for us, these knobby spectacles of round rubber caught the eye of a kind fellow cyclist.

2014-01-ECR-07

I was hesitant to roll with Knards, but I think it was one of the best gear decisions I made.

We have attacked the Western Cape by way of dirt tracks and gravel roads…routes based upon the recommendations of countless locals, Tracks4Africa, and an off-road motorcycle book called Dirt Busters. The surfaces generally range from chunky limestone gravel to shale to dirt to sand, and they come in varying levels of roughness. But we have also spent plenty of miles on very rocky off-road tracks, sandy washouts, mud, stream crossings and plenty of eroded ungelations. These conditions, in my opinion, are home for Knards, and the ECR for that matter. The tires eat up vibrations that this terrain dishes out, for kilometers on end, especially at speed. Last year, on my Troll, I would get numb-hands after long stretches of bumpiness, but that hasn’t occurred with the current setup. It may be partially due to the 29er platform, but I think I owe the Knards a salute on this. Another big plus is the ability for the tires to completely eat up egg-sized rocks that seem to be strewn all over these tracks. They simply barrel over almost anything without consequence.

Surly ECR - Off Road Bike Touring - Knards

Looking almost new after 1,000 KMs

The tires are a little sluggish on pavement, but not nearly as much as I was expecting. Considering their size and tooth, they actually move pretty well on all surfaces. The other day we rode out of Van Wyksdorp up and down some pretty big hills with two mountain bikers we met. After pausing for a photo, I shot down the hill, and Nicholas waiting at the bottom exclaimed, “I thought you were a Land Rover coming around the corner!” Fine by me. The off road performance and bump-eating characteristics make up for the slight speed penalty.

Also, you can feel the rotational weight of the tires coupled with the heavy Toobs. I plan on setting them up tubeless in the future which should remedy some of the weight penalty.

Surly ECR - Off Road Bike Touring - South Africa

My two biggest concerns about running the Knards over a long tour on foreign soil, were toughness and treadware. So far I’ve had one flat. A slow leak that was repaired by a few squirts of Stans (sold at pretty much every bike shop in South Africa) via the removable core of the Surly Toob. The puncture, which I think came from a porcupine spine on a dirt road through the Klein Karoo, quickly patched itself and I’ve been rolling over rock and dirt for two weeks since.

After 1,000 KMs, the 27TPI Knards are showing very little sign of wear; impressive considering we have also pedaled on a fair share of pavement. Only time will tell how they will hold up over the long haul, but I am confident that they will last the majority of a 4-month trip. In case of a blow out, I am carrying a spare 2.2”. Really only necessary once we go North; the 29er has definitely caught on in South Africa.

Surly ECR - Off Road Bike Touring

Pretty happy I put the 34t ring on in combo with the Rohloff, my knees are thanking me after a couple of recent passes. But, now my Salsa bash is looking a little goofy; need to find a smaller one to match.

Surly ECR (Extremely Comfy Ride)

The last thing I’ll add, on a personal note, is that this is the best fitting bicycle I have ever put together. There is something special about a bike that feels as if you fit within the cockpit, instead of sitting upon it. It’s not as simple as choosing the right stem, or having your seat adjusted correctly. It’s kind of a divine match. I have purchased all the bikes I have ever owned sight unseen; some have worked and some have become my bike. This is definitely one of those.

Surly ECR - Off Road Bike Touring - Knards, Racks

The Build

  • Frame: 20″ Surly ECR (large)
  • Rear Hub: Rohloff Speedhub 500/14 36 spoke
  • Front Hub: Velocity Disc 36 spoke
  • Wheels: Velocity Blunt 35 29er laced by The Wheel Department
  • Cranks: Shimano Deore LX (oldschool and bulletproof)
  • Ring: NEW: Shimano road 34t – sadly swapped out my Surly Stainless 38t
  • Chain: Wippermann 808
  • Tires: Surly Knard 27TPI
  • Bottom Bracket: SKF
  • Brakes: Avid BB7 / Avid Ultimate levers
  • Headset: Chris King Nothreadset
  • Handlebar: Crank Brothers Cobalt riser (cut to about 680mm)
  • Stem: Easton EA70 100mm
  • Saddle: Selle Anatomica Titanico X
  • Seatpost: Easton Havoc
  • Pedals: Blackspire Big Slim MKII
  • Front Rack: Salsa Minimalist
  • Rear Rack: Tubus Vega

P.S.

2014-01-ECR-13

A proper braai. I think I ate about 2 feet of this batch of boerewors (South African sausage) after a 4,000 ft climb today.

Tags

  • Jake Kruse

    thanks a bunch, i have been eagerly awaiting this review. comments on the bottom bracket height issue and fit of the bike are especially appreciated. how have you been liking the selle anatomica saddle? i was thinking it would be a good fit for my future ECR, and am curious if you have any comments about its durability under day-in day-out touring conditions.

  • Lars Henning

    Gorgeous looking bike, Logan. I’ve been waiting for a write up on something like this. I am both ECR and Rohloff curious. Maybe on my next trip!

  • chris

    36 spoke?

  • Jeff Bartlett

    You talk a bit about speed, but I am curious about how fast it handles dirt roads? I am looking for a Tour Divide bike and feel the ECR might be the best answer. My other idea is to run 2.0 inch rubber on my Long Haul Trucker.

    Just curious if the ECR can be fast enough to push towards a 200 km day?

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Yes sir.

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    I think it could be, as long as you have the legs. I would probably use a tubless setup for that purpose, and possibly the lighter Knards, although I can’t speak to their durability. Lighter components could also make it work well.

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Thanks, do it!!

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    I love the Titanico. This is actually my second one, used it on my last tour as well. I wouldn’t ride anything else. Get the X though, it’s much tougher than the original leather… also, check out my review of the old one here: http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/gear/selle-anatomica-titanico-the-best-bike-touring-saddle/

  • Joe

    Thanks so much for the review. I’m even more sold on this bike than before. I am impatiently waiting to buy an ECR for myself. The bike shop says not yet…

  • Fraser

    How tall are you what’s ur inseem?

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    About 6′ even. 33″ inseam…

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Sure thing… should be soon I would imagine…

  • http://www.uninspiredramblings.com/ Chris

    Great review. Did you get the copper rivets on your second Anatomica? How careful are you with it in the rain? It sounds like the TruLeather is longer lasting than the Watershed leather but needs protection from water. I had a Brooks B17 but didn’t like riding it with the rain cover on – I think it lost the ‘slippyness’ of the leather on its own. I like the idea of this saddle but wonder how much more care of it you have to take compared to a ‘normal’ saddle?

  • BikeHermit

    I love the 700×41 Knards on the Surly Straggler. You neglected to identify the bags you are using, I think.

  • Einweltenbummler

    Hi, you’ll find tires for 29inch in Africa. I just got some in Tanzania, but they didn’t last long, though. For a tube, you can strech a 26inch to fit.
    Cheers

  • ciclogenesis

    Hi, what is the clearance between the chain and the rear tyre?
    Thank you!!

  • Jeff Bartlett

    Awesome. Thanks. I am very partial to my long haul, but these knew Knard tires are giving me ideas!

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Thanks! Yep, copper for this one. Funny you ask… I just got done riding in some nasty rain and rolled into Jeffreys Bay about an hour ago. No, I never take any special care in the rain, but I have the Watershed versoin. I did recoat my other one with their ‘Saddle Sauce’ after our Central American tour last year though. I think their Truleather comes with a coat of Saddle Sauce as well, which acts as a rain protector. Oh, and sorry for the delay, I have been pretty far out in the bush with no wifi or 3g…

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Good to know! I have seen all types of 29er tires in shops in SOuth Africa. A lot of great Schwalbes as well…

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Sorry for the delayed response… I have been pretty far out in the bush with no wifi or 3g. Not having measuring tape on tour, I would visually estimate about 3/4″ (19mm)…

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Ah yes, sorry I had planned on doing a packlist soon. I am using a DIY saddlebag I made, a DIY framebag and a Crumpler Kashgar that I converted to a bar bag. There are posts about those projects in the Gear section of the site. Also, using a few various drybags and things. I will post the full list soon, if you are interested. And sorry for the delayed resopnse, I have been pretty far out in the bush with no wifi or 3g…

  • http://www.uninspiredramblings.com/ Chris

    No worries, figured you were out having fun! I was tempted by the watershed version for that reason but then saw they say that although its more comfortable from the off, it probably will stretch more quickly and won’t last as long. Arggh…

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Tough call. I guess it depends how long you plan to travel with it. I have tightened my adjustment screw about 3/8″, so far (after about 1,100 KM on a mix of gravel, really rough dirt and rock roads, and a little pavement). It was a brand new Watershed X, and I weigh about 170 lbs. I think it will last a while…

  • http://www.uninspiredramblings.com/ Chris

    I’m thinking of an indefinite mountain bike ride… a long trip. Wondered whether I should really be going for the NSX version though that removes the slot which is kind of the main feature of the Titanico. And in my hesitation, the prices have gone back up… Darn…!

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Bummer, you missed the holiday sale. I highly recommend the slotted version. I ride with no chamois… it’s that comfortable.

  • ciclogenesis

    Thank you for the information!!
    I’m planning to mount a bike like yours and this is important data for mud places.
    Cheers!!

  • Connor D’Amato

    Hey any chance you could tell me if the knards will fit the ogre?

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Connor, I have seen photos of folks putting a Knard on the front of an Ogre, but it won’t fit on the rear…

  • Connor D’Amato

    Thanks very much thats what ive been reading. I’m a little upset i got an ogre a few months before the ecr was available. But I’m gonna set it up with 2.5 i think.

  • Bike Tourings

    Your Selle Anatomica Titanico X is it the NSX model without the cutout? Knards appear to be holding up very well, Kenda Small Block Eight memories, nice build.

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Thanks, no it’s the X with the cut-out…

  • Chad L

    I wasn’t aware that SKF made a sealed taper BB for a 73mm wide shell? Did you shoe horn their 68mm model into your bike? Regards.

  • Studsted

    Are you suing a double chain rail on the Deore XT? I want to build one of these and use the Deore 2×10 drivetrain.

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Yeah, using the second ring on that old deore crank for a Rohloff… worked well for the chainline…

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Fits both… here is what Sheldon has on it: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/bottombrackets.html#skf

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  • Harry Major

    Thanks for the fantastic review! 2 questions.

    1) how do the tires mount/feel on the 35mm blunts as opposed to the 50mm Rabbit Holes.
    2) ECR vs Pugsely for long distance off road touring. My Girlfriend and I are trying to decide for a pan america trip. Its killing us, as there is no where to test an ECR in Australia. Does the ECR still have that smile enduring roll over fun that the 4″ tyres of the Pug provide?

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Thanks Harry! I haven’t ridden the Rabbit Holes, but I have no problem with the Blunts… love them actually. I have toured on Velocitys for several thousand miles and have not had any issues. The provide enough tire spread for me and no issues with the tires rolling off in heavy cornering. The ECR and Pugs are definitely going to be different beasts. The ECR is very fun and ‘smile inducing’! That’s a tough choice… I am all about the ECR though! Let me know how you choose to proceed…

  • http://www.uninspiredramblings.com/ Chris

    Hey Logan, I wondered how the Titanico X was doing and whether you feel that it is lasting? I’m about to pull the trigger I think, after unsuccessfully trying some others the past few months. Selle Anatomica’s firm advice to me is to go for the NSX for off-road riding as it will resist the stretch, but it also seems that it would not provide the same comfort! Hows yours holding up after a good period of sustained riding?

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    It’s doing very well, actually. The rivets have a coat of rust on them, but I am in Southern Africa during the rainy season, so most of the time it gets rained on daily…

  • Ben

    Regarding ECR Vega/Logo fit:

    I also have an ECR and am running Tubus Logo EVO and Vega EVO racks – Currently Logo up front because it keeps my panniers from rubbing on the fork but I have tried the reverse (Vega up front and Logo in the rear). At the rear, there is a bit more tire clearance with the Logo – the tire whiskers will rub the Vega but not the Logo running 127TPI Knards tubeless on Velocity Duallys. I’m unsure if this is a design variation in the racks or a manufacturing variation but it is a fact for the two racks I have.

    Tire clearance is a non-issue for these racks up front because the braze-ons are mounted pretty high up the fork.

    Sorry I can’t give exact measurements as I am now experimenting with Schwalbe tires, being not entirely thrilled with the fit of the Knards running tubeless on the Duallys (loose bead). I anxiously await the Notubes 29+ rims and hope that we will also see fat and 29+ tires from Schwalbe!

    PS. Great blog. I really enjoyed following your recent trip.

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Hi Ben. Interesting to hear about the Logo… I was curious about that one. Also, bummer about the loose bead on the Duallys (although I have heard of similar issues). I love Velocity rims, so I’d love to see an workable solution for tubeless with 27TPI Knards. My 27TPIs have about 6,000 kilometers on them and still rolling… Cheers, and thanks for the feedback!

  • Armand

    Hey there, Loving the hek out of your blog, photography, and your trips!

    I’m wondering if you can touch on how you went about mounting the bottle cages on your rear rack? I’d like to go about something similar with my rig.

    Thanks in advance!
    -Armand

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Hi Armand, thanks! There is actually a very detailed description of how they were fabricated here: http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/gear/tubus-vega-surly-ecr-rack-mods-extra-h20/

  • workless

    I was intrigued by the Salsa minimalist front rack you are using but just saw this about a product recall: http://salsacycles.com/culture/salsa_minimalist_rack_voluntary_recall

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Yeah, that was from 2012. Since then they made a new mount for the fork attachment. However, they stopped making them in late 2013. It was rumored that they had a version 2 coming out, but I asked them (yesterday as a matter of fact) and got a response that they are not pursuing it at this time…

  • workless

    Thanks for the info. I’m not quite as minimalist as you so I went with Surly front and rear racks for my newly-purchased Ogre, but to be honest I don’t want front panniers for most trips so this would be a perfect alternative. I just ordered Arkel XM-45 and XM-28 front and rear panniers. They claim they are better for offroad/single track riding because they are thin and not so low-hanging. Any thoughts?

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    I haven’t tried Arkels. You might also think about the new reworked Anything cages for the fork mounts. They work well with the 5L big river dry bags. Are you planning a trip?

  • workless

    Those Anything cages are just what I need thanks. I could strap my tarp and roll matt on those probably. Was hoping to do the Idaho Hot Springs Mountain Bike Route but seem to have run out of summer. http://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/adventure-cycling-route-network/idaho-hot-springs-mountain-bike-route/

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Nice. Yeah, think abour running your fronts on the back rack, anything cages and a revelate sweet roll. That’s pretty much the setup that my wife used in Africa and it was a pretty nice kit for offroad. I am thinking about something similar with a framebag for our next big trip…

  • Nad M

    Did you ever get one? How did your pan america trip go?!

  • Timmee (UK)

    Congrats on your Excellent Blog Logan. I’m curious about your choice brakes which look like cable discs. Is your choice of cable about obtaining spares in Africa?

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Thanks Timmee! They are Avid BB7 cable/mechanical disc brakes. I use them for a couple of reasons: 1. They are fairly simple and easy to adjust; 2. Cables can easily be replaced, whereas a hydraulic fail would be devistating in the middle of nowhere; 3. The pads are fairly well distributed. I have found replacements in South Africa, Mexico, etc.

  • Filip Svoboda

    Great wesite, I have a question – what’s your height? I am measuring 182 cm. I hesitate between 18 and 20 and I don’t know what size I should buy. Thank you!

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Thanks Filip. I am about 183 cm tall. The 20″ fits perfectly. If I were you I’d get the 20… you can always get a shorter stem. I’d rather err on the larger side; but that is personal preference. Let me know how it works out!

  • Filip Svoboda

    Thank you, I order a 20″ and we stay in connection. :-)

  • curtisinterruptus

    What did you carry for a spare? I have a folding bead 120 tpi Knard I lugged along last summer, but am hoping to find something that is much lighter / smaller…

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    I carried a geax saguaro…

  • Mikee Texas

    What are your thought on using a thudbuster lt or st or something like a specialized cg-r, are the tires providing enough suspension? could you see yourself using a suspension fork or trying one in the future?

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    I don’t need it really… I have simply goteen used to a rigid bike with the bigger volume tires acting as minimal suspension. Currently riding a Krampus rigid as my trail bike… no complaints with 15psi in 3″ tires.

  • Mikee Texas

    How do u feel about krampus vs ecr vs monkey/ogre

  • dmorg

    What tyres did your wife use on her troll? I used smart sam’s for my last trip but would like to try something larger. Will 26×3 knards fit. If not, how about the dirt wizards? Love the site. Cheers, Dave

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Thanks Dave. The last iteration was a 2″ Mondial on the back and a Conti 2.2 on the front setup tubeless. We sold the Troll and got her a Pugs. The troll wss a little small and with the Pugs she can run 3″ knards (they don’t quite fit on the Troll… well, they actually do but with only a milimeter or so to spare). Dirt Wizards would be great… especially if you set them up tubeless. You’d be able to get a decent amount of squish. But then again, if you have to spend a fair share of time on tarmac, the DWs might be a bit too aggressive…

  • dmorg

    Thanks for the quick reply. Shame about the knards not fitting. My trips usually involve a few days pavement on the way to rougher stuff (e.g.,Chandigarh-Spiti-Keylong) so I may get some wizards and see how the feel on my pavement commute. I’m not ready for tubeless (or I don’t think I am) yet so it’s not a big deal to swap out to supremes for anticipated longer stretches of pavement. More weight with an extra pair of tyres, though. Do you know of anything like a knard at 2.75?

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Unfortunately when you get above 2.35 there aren’t many options right now…

  • Mikee Texas

    Question about 29 plus tires and road efficiency. I am always looking for ways to build my bike as a do it all bike, and the 29 plus tires seem like a great size. I am just slightly concerned that my current 30 mile commute will begin to kick my a$$ if i fit 3.0 in tires. I am currently running 35mm mondials and they are faster than fast and hella efficient, Do you think I could run them at higher pressures and do just fine on the road and then be able to lower the pressures when i hit the trail on the weekends? Thanks!

  • Nad

    Really good question, would love to hear what you think Logan!

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    I wouldn’t recommend knards for commuting; It’s not worth wearing them out and the added drag on the road. They are good on the road for mixed terrain touring, but when you have options you can run standard 29er tires on those rims… how about some 2″ Mondials, Marathons or Big Apples. Then swap them out on the weekends for Knards in the dirt.

  • Mikee Texas

    Spoken like a true fatty philosopher. That’s what I needed to hear. Sure appreciate you. Thank you.

  • Andy Grow

    Wondering what your thoughts are on the EVR vs the Disc Trucker? I’ve currently got a DT built up with Velocity Blunt 35’s and Clement MSO x’plor 700×40’s for my pavement/gravel road bikepacking and touring bike.

    I’ve got a Pugsley for fat biking plus a set of Rabbit Hole 29+ with 3″ Knards, that handles my strictly off-road bikepacking desires.

    Would the ECR cross over into the Pugs responsibilities too much for me to warrant getting rid of the DT frame? I like the more upright position the ECR would put me in (I ride with Woodchippers), as well as all the extra fork brazeons ECR comes with.

    Mainly wondering if the ECR is decent enough at some paved touring that’ll be mixed with gravel/dirt/fire roads?

    Thanks for your thoughts!
    Andy

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Hi Andy, The ECR has a pretty fantastic geometry for long rides and mixed terrain. I haven’t had any experience with the Woodchipper and how it would affect the geometry though. There definitely would be some crossover with the Pugs/ECR. I might suggest trying the ECR before committing, if you can.

  • Blaine Snow

    I’m planning to ride the Canadian section of the Great Divide Mtn Bike Route in July… the ECR is looking like the best bike for such a ride. Would you agree? Are there any other bikes that compare with it?

  • Matthew

    Logan,

    If you has to choose one bike for an around the world tour, both road and dirt, which bike would you choose, and what width rim?

    I’m thinking either the ecr w/ 29er Mondials for road, and some off road folding bead. Also, would you run tubed or tubeless?

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    or an around the world tour… hmm. I wouldn’t carry two sets of tires. Personally, I’d try to stay off tarmac as much as possible and go with an ECR/Rohloff combo… with Knard 27TPI tires (I would also pre ship Knards to a couple of locations. I don’t think the ECR would do well with small tires as the BB would be very low. If you are leaning towards Mondials, I would look at the Troll or the Ogre.

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    Hi Blaine, Sorry, I must have missed this comment… Yeah, I think the ECR is an excellent choice for the GDMBR. The only other bike I’d consider is the Krampus, but the ECR is more comfortable for long gravel days (which there are a lot of on the GD)!

  • Blaine Snow

    Thanks Logan… got an ECR on order – can’t wait to get it out there.

  • Steven Sloat

    I notice you have a second stem mounted below your handlebar. What is its purpose?

  • http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/ Logan

    That is an accessory bar with a ClickFix mechanism mounted on it, for this: http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/gear/crumpler-kashgar-camera-bag-turned-handlebar-bag/

    It it a bit bulky, but worked well for Africa.

  • ironbirdexplorer

    Cool. And quick reply too! Thanks.

  • Gorgin

    Nicely written review. Question, what size spindle are you running on the SKF BB? Thanks

  • Donnieboy

    You ordered the right size :) If you’re doing rides over 70km in distance it’s worth getting an expert fit as well.

  • Janet Stark

    I am looking at cycling the length of New Zealand approx. 3000km (probably do it in stages) – the route surface will be sand, single track, pathways and road (a fair bit of road). Was wondering about the Surly Ogre v’s the ECR. What are you thoughts on the ECR and riding it on roads?

  • Zdana

    I want to ask on the rear rack. it’s a type of tube Vega for 29er? I deal size rack for my ECR. Thanks

  • Matthew Crompton

    Hey Logan-

    Am currently setting up an off-road rig for a trip across Central Asia of 6+ months, and waffling between 26 fat and 29+. Conventional wisdom, of course, is that you run 26-inch wheels in remote areas for ease of finding spares, but as tyres or tubes for a 50+mm rim and big-volume tyre are going to be pretty hard to come by in Tajikistan anyways, I increasingly wonder what it really matters.

    This piece was written while you were in ZA, I know, with access to decent 29+ stock, but I know you went further afield in Africa later in this trip, so I was curious as to if you *really* found running a 29-plus setup to be the problem it’s often presented to be. Do you reckon it’s a serious issue, or that it’s not such a biggie and can be mitigated (by carrying a spare tyre / a few spare spokes, for example)?

    Also: tubeless setups for remote touring? I know a few of the prominent folks in the bikepacking scene are doing extended tours on exactly that, but was curious about your thoughts. Cheers and thanks as ever — always hugely enjoy the site!

  • http://www.whileoutriding.com Cass Gilbert

    As much as I like full fat, my next ride in Asia (also in the Central region) will most likely be on a 29+, just because I see it as the sweet spot for touring on paved and dirt. Unless sand or snow is a big part of your journey, it’s a great option for backcountry travel.

    This said, I’ll be thoughtful about spares – I may well bring a tyre to post or carry onwards (Maxxis Chronicles are a good choice, by the way, and I’ve found Rabbit Holes to be a sturdy rim). And, most likely I’ll run tubeless too, just because there’s no reason not to these days.

    This said, there are definite advantages to a full fat bike for touring in far flung destinations, aside from the considerations of terrain. The wheel is that much stronger. In a pinch, you can run standard 26in tube in a 26×3.8 tyre. If your bike is built around 65mm rims, you can always fit the widest standard mtb tyre you can find (again, in an emergency). And, although I doubt there are many fat bikers in the likes of Kygyzstan, it may well be possible to source tyres in one or two neighbouring Asian countries, given the fat bike boom.

    Food for thought, I hope!

  • Cass Gilbert

    As much as I like full fat, my next ride in Asia (also in the Central region) will most likely be on a 29+, just because I see it as the sweet spot for touring on paved and dirt. Unless sand or snow is a big part of your journey, it’s a great option for backcountry travel.

    This said, I’ll be thoughtful about spares – I may well bring a tyre to post or carry onwards (Maxxis Chronicles are a good choice, by the way, and I’ve found Rabbit Holes to be a sturdy rim). And, most likely I’ll run tubeless too, just because there’s no reason not to these days.

    This said, there are definite advantages to a full fat bike for touring in far flung destinations, aside from the considerations of terrain. The wheel is that much stronger. In a pinch, you can run standard 26in tube in a 26×3.8 tyre. If your bike is built around 65mm rims, you can always fit the widest standard mtb tyre you can find (again, in an emergency). And, although I doubt there are many fat bikers in the likes of Kygyzstan, it may well be possible to source tyres in one or two neighbouring Asian countries, given the fat bike boom.

    Food for thought, I hope!

  • Matthew Crompton

    Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply, Cass — always good to hear the opinion of someone with as many miles on them as yourself! Your comment certainly reinforces what I’ve been thinking on the merits of 29+ for covering big swathes of mixed terrain, though I was looking at the WTB Scraper rim as it seems to get high marks both for toughness and ease of tubeless setup (not having to go ‘ghetto’ as is apparently necessary with the Rabbit Holes). Where is your planned route thru the Central Asian states going to take you, btw? =)

  • Cass Gilbert

    Hi Matthew,

    I don’t doubt the Scraper is a great rim too. I’ve been running a set on a Jones Plus, and so far so great. But having had a set of RHs for some time now – that have migrated back and forth between an ECR and an Krampus on a bunch of trips – I’ve been extremely impressed by their long term hardiness. Same could be said of the Scrapers – I just haven’t had the chance to put the miles on them yet to be sure.

    Some time ago, I rode through Central Asia, then returned to explore Kyrgyzstan in more detail. This time round, I’ll just be riding the Pamir Highway, with a few weeks in Kyrgyzstan too. Given that my travels before were in 1999, predating internet research and GPS (for me at least), I can only imagine the potential given the likes of Google Earth!

  • Eric Timmerman

    what is a typical width 26″ tire found over seas? what is the maximum width you can normally find? I am considering rabbit holes on a troll for a world tour and would like to be able to run typical tyres as well as give myself the ability to run knards/dirtwizards. Thanks!

  • Cass Gilbert

    Not sure about elsewhere, but In Latin America, you can find all sorts. The widest would be a DH tire – 2.3-2.5. Not the best tire for touring though, but handy in a pinch (if you’re running wide rims). Thinking about it, I’d go for a 35-40mm rim if you want to run a range of tire sizes. Standard touring tires might be a bit narrow for a RH. Even a 2.3 could be a bit on the slender side.

  • Matthew Crompton

    I’m quite looking forward to the whole expedition, but I’d be lying if I said that the Pamir Highway (and surrounds!) wasn’t right at the top of my list. =)
    Looking forward to seeing the photos on whileoutriding!

  • gekibutsu

    Hi. Great web site and built.
    I am curious to learn if your Tubus Vega is the regular one made for 26″/28″ bikes or 29″ specific one. I am planning to attach a Logo Titan to my 29er (2.35″ width) and it is only available for 26″/28″ bikes. Would it fit to my bike?

  • http://www.bikepacking.com/ BIKEPACKING.com (Logan)

    Hi Matthew. Ironically, I am currently back in Africa, on Maxxis Chronicles and Scraper rims; I set them up tubeless with Orange Seal and a Lezyne Micro-drive. Of course, this trip is -3 months, vs 6 months. That said, s Cass mentioned, I think if you can plan accordingly by posting a tire somewhere, you should be good. It really depends on how hard you ride and what type of terrain a well. If you intend on sticking to dirt roads, the tires should ware a lot better than if you are riding jagged and rocky tracks…

  • http://www.bikepacking.com/ BIKEPACKING.com (Logan)

    It is a standard Vega; however, they do/did make a 29 version. It works with 35mm Blunts, but with Rabbit Holes the Knards are too wide and hit the rack sides.

  • http://www.bikepacking.com/ BIKEPACKING.com (Logan)

    I have plenty of mikes on road with the ECR. It is fine as long as you are OK with a little more drag from the plus tires. Overall the ECR is a very comfortable ‘long day’ geometry that’s perfect for mixed terrain touring.

  • http://www.bikepacking.com/ BIKEPACKING.com (Logan)

    Whoops, missed this and just saw it in passing. It was a standard square taper.

  • Zdana

    I’m sorry. I found your article on the rack. ECR I have a rabbit hole. I’ll try there vega 29er. I plan to make a reduction to get the rack of higher Knard. To increase space. thank you for answer

  • Tim Clarke

    Hey!
    I have been reading through your site alot lately. Lots of great information.
    I am planning a 1000km ride this June which will be off-road with variable conditions loose rocks hard packed and beach rocks.
    I have been reading through lots of your reviews and been liking the surly ecr, krampus, salsa cutthroat, deadwood. Only thing with the deadwood I’m not sure if they are out of stock and they are not making anymore this year?
    The bike will strictly be a off-road touring bike. I have a niner rip 9 rdo and salsa beargrease.

  • matthew

    Hey Logan- Yeah, the orthodoxy around 26-inch wheels really does increasingly seem to be just that, and the advantages of a plus rather than fat setup are pretty persuasive. I see you seem to be touring on 27.5+. Are you noticing a great deal of difference between that and 29+? And I assume the Scrapers are holding up well? =)

  • Eric Timmerman

    Blunt 35’s it is! thanks.

  • Cass Gilbert

    From what I remember, this Troll was built up with Blunt 35s.

    http://whileoutriding.tumblr.com/post/119841834390/surly-travelling-trolloff-fitted-with-275in-dirt

    I’ve not had only any long term experience with them myself, but the size is certainly a versatile one.

  • Eric Timmerman

    Beautiful.

  • http://www.iambold.com/ Mark Panya Wienands

    I’ve gone through this review about three times … just to make sure I am not missing anything while I’m building my very own ECR. I must say, you convinced me in getting one…. I currently run a Salsa Fargo 2 (size M, 2015 model) – don’t get me wrong it’s a good bikepacking rig. But I am looking for bigger tracks and the plethora of braze ons that is on the ECR that would haul more gear through more than ever remote regions.

    I have a few questions, Logan. I am 5’9″ (176 cm). Should I gun it and go for the size L (20) instead of M (18)? Or do you think I fall right at home on the size M. Unfortunately I live in Thailand and I have no means of testing most of the few Surly bike lineups including the ECR.

    Also question on your particular rims. The Blunt 35 from Velocity seems to be on the minimum end of the recommended rim size. Did you get a bit of wobble on turns, especially if you have a low pressure. I’m eyeing on the Velocity Dually, it’s 45mm wide.

  • http://www.bikepacking.com/ BIKEPACKING.com (Logan)

    That’s a tough question on the size. The 20″ frame fits me perfectly (I am riding it right now in Uganda). I am 6′ even with a 33″ inseam. I would think the 18″ would be a better choice, but some folks like to have a larger bike to allow more frame bag space.

    I would go with either Duallys or WTB Scrapers (which I am using now)…

  • Paul

    Logan! They’re giving away your ECR!
    http://www.718c.com/bikegiveaway

  • http://www.iambold.com/ Mark Panya Wienands

    Appreciated your quick response. I am definitely going to go for size M and the the WTB Scrapers for the rims!

  • http://www.iambold.com/ Mark Panya Wienands

    Hey Logan, got a few more question as there were no mention about it in this article nor in the comments section :(

    What brake rotor size are you using for the Rolloff rear hub? The official Surly website stated a maximum 160mm on the rear. Would it be possible to go for 180mm (just for redundancy in case of a failure so they are interchangeable)?

    Is your Rohloff internally gear mech or external? Would be nice to know your full Rohloff Hub Code as well as I am not sure what OEM plates do I need that can safely interface with the disc brake on the ECR.

  • Martin Rogue

    Hello Logan, there is a few comments about frame size and people’s height. here is another one… I am about to get an ECR but can’t decide between Large or XL. I am 186cm tall (without shoes) and have inseam of 90cm. I tested an XL Ogre and it felt big and slow in handling. Do you think a Large ECR is OK? Thanks a lot

  • Martin Rogue

    Hello Logan, there is a few comments about frame size and people’s height. here is another one… I am about to get an ECR but can’t decide between Large or XL. I am 186cm tall (without shoes) and have inseam of 90cm. I tested an XL Ogre and it felt big and slow in handling. Do you think a Large ECR is OK? Thanks a lot

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